{"Data":{"TaskId":12514551102,"Status":2,"StatusStr":"success","Result":"大家可能知道，养鱼的人其实比起养鱼更重要的是养那缸水，环境好了的话。就是整个养什么都什么都可以，活得很好。在里面往这缸水里面放很贵的那个鱼苗之前去放一些呃，很便宜的啊，死了你也不太心疼的鱼，去来测试这缸水是不是已经养好了。这批放下去的鱼。就叫做闯缸鱼。我记得那个是呃六点半的时候，就是那个阿童木的声，那个音乐声音起来的时候，我就抓耳挠腮嘛，因为家里没有电视。然后呢，跟楼下的这个算是发小吧，关系特别好。但是呢，还得看着他爸妈的脸色去蹭他的电视机。所以呢，每次都要问他我说，你妈妈在家吗？在家我就不能看。然后只能躲在一楼跟二楼的中间拐角的时候，偷偷地瞄他家里。就是因为我，我家里对我学习管的比较严，完了之后就是动画对我来说就是奖励，就必须得把作业写完了，然后才才能看。然后，然后就每天就是盼着很疯狂的快点把作业写完，然后盼着能能看，但是有的时候就可能赶上作业留的比较多或什么的，然后等我写完的时候，动画也放完了，那个时候是在电视上放嘛，然后就崩溃到大哭在家。我妈妈当时有中国传统妇女，呃一一一就是她们都有的一个习惯，就是喜欢在吃完饭以后，在一块儿聊那种家不长里不短的去去八卦去，然后。当时呢，吃完饭，然后呢，我妈就非得带着我去串门儿。那个时候呢，就正是要看动画的时候。然后呢，他们家没有电视。我就当时我就傻了，出门以后我妈带着我，我全程都不说话，然后她跟我说话，我也不理她，然后她就跟我急了，你聋了是怎么着？我跟你说话，你听不见我当时我就用我幼小心灵里最大的力量，喊了一句，啊，我没看动画片，然后然后我就跑了，从我这个年代来说呢。那时候我们小时候啊，其实还没有动画可看，所以我从小呢，实际上对我来说，呃接触绘画，接触视觉的东西，应该可以说是从那个连环画，就是我们俗称的叫小人书，因为小时候呢，我后来自己也买了很多。用自己的零用钱积攒起来的，当时呢，我记得大人呃来家里谈事儿，为了把小孩支走啊，然后就会给给我们一些钱，然后让我们到这个马路上的小人的书摊上去看书。我记得当时呃一分钱看一本，那然后在那里花个几分钱可以坐个一下午。所以最早接触绘画，我感觉就是从这个连环画开始。我记得我小时候还呃，还专门郑重其事的给自己订了一本书啊，就是用白纸啊，就是包装好，然后弄了一个杂杂志一样的这这这种书，然后自己会编一些故事啊，然后画画上去这样子。嗯，据我据我妈妈说就是可能嗯两三岁的时候，我就就我就能画挺复杂的画，嗯，就是比如说那个时候我就特别喜欢蹲在墙角去画蚂蚁，然后看蚂蚁搬家呀，然后搬食物啊，我就可以画很多就是。一张纸全是蚂蚁，然后他们在在搬家，然后然后这样子就就会画很多这样的东西。然后后来再大一点上小学的时候，我妈就就给我呃找了一个老师啊，那个时候就开始呃接受一些呃比较正统的美术的训练。我做过一个非常疯狂的一件事儿，就是那个火柴里面一个小片儿，就是这种就是人物嘛。我把那个水浒的一百零八将是一笔一画画出来的哦，那时候我觉得我自己很伟大，我有个很印象很深刻的就是呃小学的时候会有秋游，就是或者春游就是全班同学一起去。但我我有时候不去，我会想到说，哎我有我不去，我就有一天的时间可以在那个地上面画画，我也觉得呃会觉得还挺挺划得来的，然后就会选择不去啊不当然那个时候也会家里比较穷，就不去的话，可以省一笔钱，虽然不多啊。啊可能就十几块钱的，那个时候会会觉得诶又又省钱，然后我自己又可以做自己喜欢的事情，就也蛮开心的。我在乡下和我爷爷奶奶生活，我妹妹在城里，她得了那个脑膜炎，七十年代初那种病是要死人的，所以我就去想去探望他。大概有有有几十公里吧，我也没有钱，我就随身带了一张画儿，然后扒那个火车，呃，在火车上呢，被这个乘警被抓住了。呃，问有没有家长，我说没有。嗯，你干嘛去？我说看我妹妹啊，他说那怎么证明是好人？然后我就从我的兜儿里边拿出我画的那张画儿，我认为好人啊，好孩子才会画画，或者才画画就可以证明。因为我从农村到。到城市，到那个三线厂，到车间里全是大人的，他们在干活，我干嘛呢？那我就拿着粉笔，在那个什么黑板报上，在地上啊，到处画在车间里画满了。诶，他们那个师，他们那个同事啊，一看我那个那个工人师傅哇，你这娃画的好啊，有才啊，我也不知道他们说真话还是假话，但是我就诶，人一表扬我也上赶着，我就天天。在那画就越画越越喜欢画，因为有人表扬，有人承认，承认，而自己觉得也越来越画的越顺手。这么一直这么画了好几年，就是从我记事起，就我爸爸就就一直在抽烟。他总是感觉心事重重的样子，这就跟我奶跟我记忆当中，我奶奶一直很老是一个样子啊。这是我妈妈，她在做饭。他每天都在做饭，要做早饭、午饭还有晚饭。这是我，我咋拿那个杆子，想摘无花果上面的果子。我自己很开心，这是我大姐二姐，我二姐就是总总是跟着我大姐玩儿，可能我。我们家里也没有在某个时刻，也没有达到一个所有人都在的状态，但是呢，他就像一个对那个时光一个浓缩的场景一样。动画就像是我现在的秘密基地一样，它它在某种情况上就是我童年的一个延续，就是那个秘密基地的一个变化。它只不过是变化了，成了一个具体的一个一个作品。这个延续是更绵长的，更持久，更有生命力的，而且最棒的就是这个秘密基地会成为很多人的秘密基地。每个人啊，都有自己擅长的创作方向啊。他你看，他画动态规律并不是特别好。你看，刚才的那个最后临走那个人离开屋子，那个动规是有问题的。非常好啊，非常好啊，非常好。那个时候，Flash是可以帮助我们把动画变成一个个人行为。因为在它诞生之前，在flash和互联网诞生之前，是很难说一个人就可以做动画片的。呃，有了flash，有了互联网，你完全可以一个人熬一个夜就可以做动画片，而且还能发到互联网上，被全世界的人能看到，还能给你反馈。就一个创作的完整流程就出现了，呃那个时候就开始有点启蒙了，所以那个时候我觉得我就开始呃有点入行的意思了。呃，但是当时也很迷茫，我一直比较烦苦恼，就是我没有学到我想学的艺术。然后我还记得我给那拾荒大哥写过信啊，他是做小破孩儿的那个导演。然后当时我有点求职的意思，因为他开公司，他不是个个人作者，但是他就婉拒了嘛。他觉得这个行业还是不是特别的有前途，这个爱好就当成爱好啊，不要，不要轻易的变成职业，直到后来我做了功兔菜包狗的第一部短片，当时拾璜就给我主动写了一封信，他就说他收回原来的话，他觉得我适合做这个行业，而且应该做这个行业。我作为散客中，呃为数不多的后来成了老师的人，所以我也在做这样的事情啊，也是在培养呃下一代的这些创作者。呃，因为我是传媒大学。的动画学院毕业的，而且那个时候国内有行吗？国内好像也没什么行。你要真说入行，我在美国留学的时候，那个入行的感觉反而更强一些。就是从USA毕业之后，然后呃我比较幸运吧，反正第一份呃工作就拿到的是皮克斯的实习，本来幻想着那里面就是每个人都画的很好，然后都是就是。啊最一级的存在啊，但是后来比较震惊的是他的那个故事版总监。哦，真的只会画圈圈人，然后那个是当时比较震惊的一件事。然后后来我意识到就是他们真的是一个非常健全的工业，就是故事版啊，Layout, 然后还有剪辑。反正大家各司其职吧，真的是把每个人的能力呃很好的组合起来。因为故事版你其实只要负责讲好故事就行，它其实对画工要求并不高，所以美国的工业，呃，真的是当时还比较，啊冲击我的。我那会儿呢，我还说我还是做着我的第一份工作，就是人民日报的编辑和记者。当时啊，这个春天开这个两会。这个人大代表啊，就提出说啊，咱们现在那个电视节目里啊，那个动画片啊，全是进口片。他说咱们国内的这个反映咱们自己的呃这个传统文化的，还有反映咱们中国人的生活的，中国人思想感情的东西基本没有。所以呢，那会儿呢，我们就采访了好多人，我们就我们就得分析啊，为什么会出现这种这种现象啊？接触到这个行业之后，我就发现确实应该有人去干这事儿。然后有很多人就干，我们就帮人家忙，帮着他宣传。帮着他找人。呃，做到最后呢，就是人家我们帮人家忙做的那个不干了。跑了。我们只好。这个我和人民日报和另外一个同事，我说咱接过来干吧。我们就辞了职，接过接过这摊子事儿。重新开始一点研究，自己干，因为我们也摸索了好多东西嘛。然后这样就是。我们进入了这个行业。我们称为动画人，因为找工作嘛，开始到深圳来呢，就是其实就是想画画，想做一个所谓画家啊，一个朋友给我介绍，这有个工厂，你去进不进，你要么进工厂算了，你不喜欢我再回到山沟里，你进工厂就算了。我说什么工厂，那是一个什么画画的工厂，好像他们画的全一样，反正都一样，多少张都一样。你就你就进那个工厂去吧，好歹有个有个饭吃以后再说你。画画的事儿，我说那也行，八十年代末，九十年代初，其实呃动画可能比今天更让人觉得很神秘的一个行当，都不知道啊，动画片是怎么出来的啊，大家对呃做动画其实也没有什么太大的概念，其实在那个那个时代。你能够画画已经很不错了，你能够找到一个能够让你画画的，呃。工作已经谢天谢地了，正好啊，在八八年有一家海外的这个外资企业进入中国市场，开了动画企业啊，公开开了个动画公司吧，那个我就啊应聘，我原本是名人民教师啊，所以啊。啊，实在是我觉得我不太有资格做一个成成很好的，很优秀的人民教师，因为我满脑子就想画画，所以呢，我把握了一次这样的机会啊。啊，进入了这家公司画画，然后呢，也就这么晕晕乎乎的啊，走上了动画这条路，当进入美影厂工作以后。尤其是主持美影厂的工作，给我最大的感触是什么呢？他同时期有很多动画片在做，比如说我这部片子是导演。我另外一部片子，我可能就是编剧，或者说我可能就是造型师，我或者就是分镜师。他是一些特别全面的人，动画片创作非常执着，就是说，呃，他穷尽了。我们美术的几乎所有的领域，比如说二维动画，对吧，这是线描的。中国以前叫白描。那么水墨动画，水墨画是吧，剪纸动画，剪纸是中国的这个民俗文化是吧。然后还有木偶。是吧，还有折纸，就是说，凡是跟绘画有关的品种，它都可以让它动起来。我学的是水彩嘛，那毕业以后其实是找不到工作的，当时就特别迷茫，就是怎么办，完全完全没有办法生存啊，所以就灰头土脸的回家了。所以我那个时候我就开始正好家里有一台电脑，开始去往里面装一些我之前完全不熟悉的软件啊，那个时候用的我记得是三DMAX。啊，然后自己买了几本厚厚的书去学习，然后学着学着慢慢就跑偏了，但是后来我发觉诶这个东西可能更感兴趣，然后我就开始开始转，慢慢的去转向，就是用三维软件去做一些小动画呀。大学开始，真真正正的呃学动画的时候就会发现自己越学越多，东西不懂。所以在大三的时候，其实就嗯，决定要还是要出去看一下外面的世界是怎么样子的。因为我从小到大可能会受日本的动画片影响比较大一点，我能在里面感受到很多有关成长跟温度的东西，所以那个时候就。决定去日本去求学。到日本的第一年，我是几乎没有一天是休息的。周一到周五在东京市中心上学，然后打工，然后周末我就跑去东京的郊外去学习这个呃，动画业界的有关日本动画业界的那些知识。为了省这个车费，就直接买了一个睡袋，每周就拿着睡袋过去那个工作室那里去熬个三天两夜，然后就不断的去去练习画画，练习作画那方面的知识，其实就是为了向老板证明，我是有这个能力可以做到火影的这这个这个作品的。我第一次就正式进入日本业界，做的第一个工作就是画火影忍者的第二原画，那个时候我记得很清楚，是剧情已经到了第四次忍界大战了，我是万万没想到，他居然能熬到我进入动画业界，它都没有完结。差不多就是从二零一三年的十二月开始，我就相当于是正式跟这个火影忍者这个作品，发生了工作关系。甚至我去那个火影的公司开会，哇，我的天，我终于就等了三年，终于有这么一个机会能够跟他面对面。你知道那个时候我兴奋到什么地步吗？就是开完作话会议都走出去，到车站突然发现我忘了跟他合照，然后屁颠屁颠的跑回去，完全不顾这个面子。就是说，能不能跟你有一张合照？就我们两个的第一次合照就是在。一六年的九月三号就记得很清楚，像那种恋爱纪念日那样子。然后，工作了大概四个月之后，我收到了他发来的邮件。他就问我说，呃，能不能过来，跟他一起去参与鸣人跟佐助最后那场大战的制作。他发来了邮件之后，我就毅然决然地。终于有机会进入到火影的那个制作组的核心里面去，变成一个主力原画的身份去参与作品。您演技怎么那么差啊？不知道怎么演啊？就这你这一段路上这么长，就是那那你这段路就是你要给自己加戏啊，你是这种这种啊，你是懂你是做动画的人啊，你要浮夸一点啊。你刚刚那个眼神戏，我刚刚一直盯着你，根本就没有那个思考的过程，我是单枪匹马，就是去从深圳到那个杭州参加了那个国际的那个动漫节，跟他们去讲我的片子，这个是个什么样的故事，我希望能有合作什么的。他们说不会买这么制作的，制作这么便宜的片子，但是我就觉得能合作就可以，能就是上平台就行。当时我们刚上了这个页面的介绍，第一集更新了，然后在这集体在这之前建有一个番剧页，说要更新了。然后。大家可以开始追番，开放追番了，然后我们看到五百个人追番好开心啊，我当时真的非常的开心，我们超级开心，有五百个人喜欢我们，期待我们，我就觉得有五百个人期待我们呢。我朋友圈不知道有没有五百个人，当时大三的时候，我就收到了那个这个包公不太行的那个版权方有妖气，然后来找我了，然后他说，我们这个漫画要动画化了，你要不要来做导演？我说，你们疯了吗？我才大三，我连学校都没有毕业，就是我就发了这样的作品，你就让我做导演。然后部总说，没关系，你来先试试嘛。然后说，然后我就想试试啊，试试就试试。在我的认知里面，我我学过动画，我知道导演这个位置，你必须要从一个学徒开始画起，可能成为真正的大导演，你要变成四五十岁，这是我当时的感觉，我觉得上来就做动画导演，我觉得这件事情就是。哈，就那种天降大运，就是就是这样这种感觉，那么最兴奋的可能是在昂溪动画节，那个时候我正在台下撇飞机，因为那个那个呃昂西诺还有一个传统，就闭幕式的时候，大家都往舞台上扔飞机，我还叠飞机不停的扔。就谁谁飞到舞台上，大家就会狂鼓掌，我的就离非常远，飞到舞台上了，就特别幸运，可能也是一种暗示吧，我会多讲，但是我完全没有想到，因为中国动画在小蝌蚪找妈妈之后，几十年的时间没有在奥奇动画节上获过任何奖。我那个算是又接上了，所以我完全我没有预料到啊。等念出我的那个名字和作品名字时候，我都诶反应了半天，然后就着急忙慌的踩了很多人的脚，你知道吗，I'm sorry, sorry, sorry. 就踩了好多人的脚，然后就狼狈的跑到舞台上面去，实际上第一真正是我们自己创作的第一部作品，应该应该是那个卖猪啊，这个是根据那个贾平凹的一个。一九七八年。纪念他父亲的一个祭文，他写得很酸涩，非常的悲凉。但是呢，我就给改编的就是调侃的非常的那个呃幽默啊，非常好玩儿，但是里面呢，也是眼中呃泪笑中带泪吧那样一个故事，然后还在东京在东京拿了个大奖。然后在加拿大，在其他的各个地方都获了一些荣誉啊。途家传奇在中国院线市场上，由于也是宣发的问题，没有宣发费嘛，有限的票房并并不是很高。但是我想分享的是，他卖了全球上百个国家和地区这部影片，已经很很很自豪的说销售了一百个国家和地区啊。我在坐飞机的时候看到参考消息，报纸上那飞机上不是有免费报纸吗？上面虽然啊豆腐块文字标题很醒目，说中国动漫开始向好莱坞发起挑战，就是兔侠传奇。啊，我我我作为一个创作者，主要创作者看到这个还是非常非常激动和令人难忘的。其实最大的点是我们做魁拔电影。这个因为当时我们要做一部呢。呃，质量标准呢，能够达到，嗯。种级别的吧。呃，动画电影，这是当时我们做魁拔的初衷，他说，你看那个巴西踢足球的是给他们国家带来巨大声誉。所以呢。那个踢球踢得最好的那个人，就是最好的巴西人。你说我是我要做一个好的中国人，我其实就是让我的国家声誉在整个世界对吧，它能保持着一个很高的水准。那凭什么呀？你得凭产品。然后我带着这帮小兄弟呢，去了这个日本。去日本这个东瀛。跟人家交流交流，同行交流交流。但是我相信，就对于日本同行来说哈，你再介绍说，那是你们国家多牛逼的一个人，他也看你也就这么回事儿。你好，比如说假如说咱是中国乒乓球队的对吧？然后有一个哥们儿说，哎呃，我我要给你介绍一个朋友，这是埃塞俄比亚国家队的，是他们国家最牛逼的，你仍然不会认为他能牛到哪儿去。就这种感觉，我们就去了。我们去了之后呢，人家介绍哎说这个你看看我们那个这作品展览吧，他整个那个楼道里啊，就放着他出品的各种产品的那个那个招贴画或者剧照，什么。我们这帮小兄弟看了之后，他都觉得那都是他童年时看的那些片子。等他看完之后呢，人就说哎，那看看你是我们的已经介绍完了，那介绍介绍你们的吧，我们就拿出那个。就很就是一个是魁拔的片花，还有一个是很西游的片花，说是在哪混账，快说把他们交出来。他们看完之后，他们说。说这种质量即使在日本也是很难做到，因为毕设嘛，那个是一四年的毕设的展映，我觉得放大屏幕上我实在不自信。我我觉得我也受不了，就是我都看吐了，你知道吧，就是我觉得我我如果在大屏幕上再看到问题，我会很痛苦，因为这种这种悔恨是无法。无法言语了，就是所以说我就退到了外面。然后听着音乐起来。然后很安静，特别安静那个，然后外面就我一个人就就在门口。然后等到最后。那个叫什么？我印象中是一条鱼落入水中，就是一切化为。就是就是一一道波纹结束以后，突然这个掌声就。就是那个响起，甚至有有欢呼啊，就是已经不是掌声了，简直是欢呼，就是就是一场狂欢。然后突然门啪的打开，你知道吧，能打开。然后有一个零九级的一个一个帮我做过几个镜头，后期的一个学生就是他说李老师。嗯，这才是我我想要做的片子，我都不敢看他。他他那个特别胖的一张脸，他就拿着这个，我说我他不行了，他就那种我我说我说你这个大男人怎么哭成这个德行呃，我觉得像做梦一样，我整个就是所以那个时候我才发现好像。Uh.这才是我真正第一部在大荧幕上，我觉得可以拿得出出手的一个作品。因为因为我从小到大就是一个就是说。算是一个。嗯，经常转换城市的一个一个状态，所以说很多朋友都不可能很长久，是吧？我到现在我都不知道哪儿人，我说上海话，但是我杭州人，但到杭州我都不会上说上海话。我一生中只在上海待杭州待了十四年。对，所以说我我没有归属感。但是，你不能沉浸在这种负面的东西里面怨天尤人。我这辈子好不圆满，是吧？那我觉得这些都是让我想创作的爆发力啊。我就要做一部中年人怎么选择的故事，就是就是姜子牙，就是他是有缺点的，他是选择恐惧症是吧？中年人都是这样，要供楼，供房，小孩要读书，我我辞了工作，从上海到北京读书怎么办是吧？然后各种保险按揭怎么办？你你的勇气其实比年轻人大多了是吧？也许你什么都没做，但思考本身就是一种勇敢。也许你没有勇气，但是我觉得有人有啊，或者说是像姜子牙这种众神之长，他也为了自己的信念游移过，是吧？就是也去挣扎过，不救人怎么救苍生？一人如露水，苍生如江海。当年一战，他们失去亲人，无家可归。我自觉有愧，从此不入封神榜，重归凡人。只要能救下每个眼前之人，我觉得就是说，动画者是。跟社会是有距离的。因为我觉得动画人就是一些。嗯，就说不善表达，但他内心又有很多幻想的人，所以才会造梦嘛，是吧？那你就把梦给别人看就行了。你可以把它把你自己躲在梦后面。因为我做的画特别沉浸在里面，就是自己画了一个角色，他活了起来好像。就你好好像是要么是你创造了一个一个一个小生命，要么就好像是每次打开它播放它的时候，它都在跟你。就好像你的一个小宠物一样，突然活在你面前啊，它跟看一幅画的感觉还不一样。我自己会很相信所创作出来的那个时空。每做一部动画他会花好久哦？那我对他的世界风格啊。啊，那一草一木的话，都是深信不疑的。他在荧幕上活灵活现的时候，他已经不再代表一个。人为的人造的一个东西，他和观众开始有接触，他成为一个真正的角色，大家会讨论他的性格，会去猜，去猜猜他的过往，去好奇他的未来和行动的时候，他已经和一个创作者，他已经开始分离了，他变成一个活灵活现的一个人物。我觉得还是故事，要能打动我的故事。才会支持我不断的前行。如果我我只是说想做一个野心家，去做一部类似皮克斯的作品，或者效仿宫崎骏做部类似的作品，这是不可能让我支持下去的。那有些有些故事是我觉得它很有意义，在当下被拍出来，被观众看到，它有它的价值。它会很有意思，它是一个真正有生命力的作品。我只是回想一下我小时候看别人的作品哦，我觉得确实会会是给我小小时候童年的一个。一个一个做梦的空间，就就有点像你看很多的小孩，他会看完一个动画片之后，他可能会想象自己是里面的某个角色，或者自己会是呃活在那个世界观里面，就它它是一种乐趣。但呃无论无论家长或者是现在的人说那是中二也好，那是幼稚也好，但我觉得我那个时候那个状态我觉得是快乐的，我觉得我相信所有小孩在想象自己是某个角色，是某个状态的时候，我觉得就是快乐的。我觉得我觉得这种做梦也就是就是就是一种开心的事情。我当时看侧耳倾听也是哭的稀里哗啦，因为当时那个呃女主女主角她面临的那个。困境就和我自己当时的那个困境是一样的，我不知道自己能不能变成这么美的结晶，我不敢去想。不过，我还是想写写好了一定会先拿给爷爷看，谢谢，希望你的书早日完成。他交出了自己的作品，写出了一部小说的框架，交给了老爷爷。然后他很急切的问老爷爷说我写的怎么样？想得到一个回答。老爷爷肯定的跟他说，你写的很好。然后那个小女孩一下就哭了，她说，我知道我写的根本就不好，我自己都知道自己写乱了。然后那个老爷就跟她说，对，但是呢，你就好像那个石头里面就是需要打磨的宝石一样。就是现在还很质朴，以后再打磨之后，你会真的变成那块宝石。那个时候就会觉得嗯，处在同样的处境里的人，好像因为这样的情节被。有人接纳了这样的一个过程。你自己真的会，然后说的时候都有点都有点激动，就是就你真的会被这个过程又感动到。就是你觉得世界上呃除了我还处在这样的情景，还有别人跟我同样走的同一条路，他们的故事就是你的激励。导演，请问您外婆那车要多少钱？呃，我我没想到小孩对他的贡献也那么强。就是他，他是已经理解了我。我我在讲述一个小孩儿，他在面对外婆，因为偷钱事情产生的巨大的愧疚感的一个释怀的问题。就一个动画产生的意义，真的我觉得就取决于观众。他能否在里边产找到自己的呃情感认知，找到自己的呃共鸣的点，因为我。创作者，他，他很很幸福的，很幸运的，他能把自己的一个生命状态中浓缩到一个作品当中。嗯，这不是所有人都拥有的权利。嗯。我们师徒一场，早就知足了。神虽死。心不能死，把今生给我。这。二零一零年的时候，那个我就为了那个时候公司都已经裁员了嘛，裁员裁到了我们从两三百人啊两百多人快三百人。才人。裁掉的裁呃，裁员是一部分，还有一部分是什么呢？树倒猢狲散呢，就是一旦你公司不太行的时候，那大家就觉得这地方没有没有意思了，连辞职带带干嘛，最后我们剩了十九人。那个时候，我真的是裁员的时候，裁一个人，我哭一次，但是哭裁了三个人，哭了三次之后，哭不下去了。呃，真的很痛心，因为我才第一个兄弟的时候，我当时记得特清楚，他他就跟我讲，他说歪哥，你怎么不早跟我说呢？我说，兄弟啊，我早跟你说不了了，因为我也不知道我挺不住了。嗯，所以就当时的时候，裁那么多人的时候，我都坚持要求还是我自己来。讲，但后来人家就噼里啪啦好多就自己辞职了的。因为创业本身，不管是什么行业的创业都很难的，但我还偏偏选择了动画的创业，那就是难上加难。我就好像突然闯入了一片未知的大森林，有各种层面的，我不知我的知识盲区在挤压着我，我我只是一下子，我觉得我好像只是一个会画画的人而已，甚至不是一个做动画的，我只是可能会涂鸦而已。呃，这些事儿就是会呃让我把我逼到一个角落吧，我会很无措，呃，然后那我是不是不该创业？那是不是我把公司注销了，我回老家考公务员啊，或者去做别的事儿，呃完全放弃这一行，其实都有想过，嗯。就是一八年的时候，一八年美食大冒险呃上映啊，但是票房非常非常的不理想啊，这么用心的去做了一部电影。但是几乎没有反响。就是那个时候觉得你你哪怕骂我几句也行，嗯，但是没有，所以说我们我们就就转型去做做外包，但其实我们做了一段时时候发现啊，我们一个原创团队，他要转型做外包。还不是一件特别容易的事情，当我们觉得自己很努力的去做了这个东西以后，然后给到甲方以后，甲方会觉得你完全没有理解我的要求。比如说觉得我们团队能力不行，嗯，这个我觉得对我们来说是一个羞辱。所以做了一段时间以后，我们。我们发觉外包也没有办法持续了，再这样下去，我们可能团队就要散掉了啊，然后而且我们还挣不了钱。就是我们我们的生存的问题也没有没有也没有办法解决，然后我们每一个主创还很疲惫，很很痛苦。前年吧，前年还是呃疫情之前，前年大前年，然后工作到一半，然后心脏难受，然后叫的幺二零那次是特别严重的，就比较严重的。突然我就据我同事说，我是栽倒了，然后就硝酸甘油洒了一地。我说是吗？我怎么记得是我自己倒出来的呢？我说不小心倒偏了，然后自己倒出来的。然后那次是比较严重的，因为那次是突然之间，我感觉他停跳了，就停跳，然后然后。感觉血压特别撞头那种，然后那那次是比较比较严重的。然后再上一次就是前几个月，前几个月就就是现在我们现在正在做这个项目，就飞恩在跟冬奥会合作那个嗯，一个那样一个项目。然后就是实在是太紧了，那天我是感觉心跳过快，心跳过快，然后。救护车也不来，就是他就是没有车调不过来。然后等他调过来的时候，半小时已经过去了。然后我就在这心慌了半个小时。救护车来的时候，我又好了。我现在头发大概一至少三分之二是在那个时候，真的是大概两个月之内就白成这个样。当时我们其实采用的一个技技术标准是一个国内目，国内当时没有制定过的一个，就没有想过要做到这种技术水平的一个影片。对，但是那时候怎么做出这东西，我根本就不知道，我也不知道该怎么能做出来。可能当中当中的确是有非常非常多的需要去重新学习的，和需要去重新梳理和极极其多的要改变。每天都每天都有新的惊喜，每天都有这个这个这个这个状态做不出来，那个状态做不出来。当时就是基本上全团队大家都睡公，都都睡办公室的一个状态吧，每天下班时间是凌晨四点。动画人的最高理想就我的理想，二十多岁，就是想我要能做一个电影，让所有人都看到，不是最好的吗？我们兴高采烈，所有人都特别开心，我们能在影院里边看到我们自己做的动画片儿了。我们的首映礼请了很多行业大佬，也是对外开放的，然后只有两个观众可能坚持了不到十分钟，十五分钟，两个人就走了。等于这个影院里除了我们自己的员工，就是我们请的动画行业的人，然后在里面看，然后动画看完了以后，首映礼嘛，导演得上台说话呀。然后我当时我们的导演东哥，就是那个那个那个剧东站在台上，先跟大家鞠了一鞠了一躬，然后。他的腰就没站起来，我就看他在那抽抽抽，他就在台上哭了。然后就跟下边说，就是说我对不起你们，你们跟我忙了一年多，两年，然后咱们的首映礼放在了一个鬼都不看电影的。一个时间段，然后这个这已经是最好的。之后说什么我都忘了，我就只记得他在导演在台上哭，我们一帮人在下边哭。哎呀，绷不住了，要是我哭了就哭。啊，给我继续继续。动感情。我一直觉得我是孤军奋战，就是。没有感觉好像没有原著，在我做完，我记得第一次做那个创作那个卖猪的时候，做完之后。因为。钱也没有了。而且。你想写的东西。画的东西。又不被。广泛认同。那我儿子那时候还小，我们都基本住在一个屋里，都很很少见面。然后我儿子在一黑板上写着画了一把刀，然后下面滴了几滴血。给钱没给钱，没钱买零食啊，没钱买买买水啊。所以我我曾经好好几次焦虑到真的就没法儿活了，怎么办呢？我们这个年龄是。创作的最佳年龄，因为我们有很深的社会积淀。我们有很强的技术。我们是来自于工业体系。我们有很好的审美意识。我有很多的故事要讲给别人听。但是在我们这个。环境里面。其实就把我们给边缘化了。然后我参加很多电影节。基本上都是下面全是小孩儿，我们现在很多电影节的鼓励也都是青年什么什么奖什么，青年什么什么什么什么。我说是不是这这。像我像我这个年龄基本就给都给枪毙，都死了，很不公平，对我来说。毕竟我我带的这个项目，我发起了这个项目，然后最后我离开了，不让我去。碰这个项目最核心的故事的层面的事情。对我来说是很是一个毁灭性的打击，心情很复杂。我有一瞬间会觉得说。可能我解脱了。然后我我跟我的制片人说，呃，那如果是这样的话，那我就撤了，但是回过头我回到家之后，其实就开始有一些觉得。很委屈。就我想不明白为什么。我付出了那么多，然后我也很努力的去想要让这个事情变得更好，但是依然最后的结果会变成这个样子，就每天晚上我都会自己。嗯。默默地流泪吧。因为我也不想让让别人看到我这个样子。我开始就怀疑自己，怀疑自己能不能够再继续在这个行业做下去，就有时候我会故意的把那个差评翻开，然后看一看他们怎么说，怎么骂我的。我印象比较深的就是，呃我第一个动画短片做出来之后，然后有差评说这个呃没有做到每秒钟二十四帧，然后真的是为中国动画感到悲哀，一开始对我影响蛮大的，就是那个时候有一度陷入抑郁吧，就觉得。我做错了什么？因为那个时候做短片其实。嗯，你很难把自己跟作品去分割开来。你几乎就是一种自我表达，放在里面很多嘛，就相当于我把我自己赤裸裸的放在了这个片子里，然后你来骂我。是对这种人格上的一种攻击，有时候会有一种无力感，是作品风格探索方面的。我在做的时候，有些作品它会。他会需要你非常非常潜下心来，不去走捷径的去找到一种风格。那这时候，有会有一些无力感，会觉得有点太太底层了。借不上力，使不上劲，毕竟我不是科科班出身。我是自学的，自学一开始从技术开始自学，但后面就开始学电影的部分，怎么去组成一部电影去学剧剧作学完剧作还不行，如果你只是一个效仿者的话，那也是远远不够的，那还得找到风格，那那又是一个更抽象和更难的。呃，一个状态，那我觉得等待自己的成熟，特别是在一种黑暗中摸索去等待自己成熟的过程中，是很煎熬的。其实，我现在还不太确定我到底能不能吃这碗饭。因为，嗯，我不想自己的作品太过于。小众太过于只是一部分人的观看，因为我自己内心期待着他走到更多人面前。那么，这这样的一个过程是我觉得是极其困难的。嗯，既然我带着这个期待，我相信我内心有可能也会面临很很大的失落或者失望。这个可能是我现在预想不到的，所有动画人的梦想都是希望能够做出一部动画电影的，想要去实现做动画电影的这样的一个梦想。但是其实中间也会碰到一些不太支持的一些一些资方吧，他会说啊，你们做的最长的一集是多长？我说八分钟，他说你知道一部电影多长吗？然后，我当时其实心里很火，因为你是在讽刺我嘛，对吧？因为我怎么可能不知道一部电影有多长嘛。你这样子来反问我的意思就是你觉得我做不出来，觉得我在痴人说梦。然后我当时其实就非常生气，就是在我印象里非常深刻的一件事情，他就会因为呃，我我目前只做了八分钟长的最长的这样的一部影片，而去否定我将来做一百二十分钟的可能。我觉得这是非常的不理智的海贼头法，做到呃尾声的时候就是查出来那个呃胆囊萎缩嘛，然后当时对自己来说这个消息是挺。挺打击的，就是两两方都打击吧。一是这边觉得自己做出来的东西就是你不满意，自己不满意，只是自己心里那个坎儿过不去。二是呢，又觉得那个。都这样了，呃，自己的身体还不好了，就是感觉好像什么都没有得到的那种感觉。这边付出了很多，那边又没有没有收获。你要说以其他方式来回报来说，其实回报不是那么。真的那么丰厚或理想，如果你要是一个，呃，真的，比如说我只是为了，嗯。赚钱过上更好的生活的话，那你大可以选更赚钱的行业。你哪怕就是说，只会画画这一个技能，你都可以去干游戏呀，你可以去做其他的。但是，很多大家还是愿意聚集在这个动画行业里面做，那你你能说为什么呢？我只大家所有人都觉，只能感觉是因为有理想在这个里面，我们自己也没有办法解释这件事情。玉环。这个书液一定要检查我的书页，现在看确实不对，就感觉。感觉那个根本就没发给他。这也是一样啊，就是。插一些在头上了啊把这个覆盖的上面减少一点。越抬一点就好，不用抬那么高，看，太高了。雄狮对我来说是一个特别很特别的一个经历。甚至于说到最后还剩最后一晚上的时候啊，那个时候我们还在不不断的去救这些镜头啊，去去调整。到最后一刻啊，我们说，哎呀，就这样吧，没办法了，就是现在必须得出片子了。我们最后看一遍，然后我们就安安静静的坐在这个呃调色棚里面，把整个片子从头到尾的去看了一遍。但是没想到。看完了以后，我们所有人都自发的鼓掌了。就是在在两个小时之前，我们还觉得这个这个这个片子完蛋了。然后两个小时之后，我们看完这个片子，我们突然一下觉得特开心。就觉得自己做了一件很了不起的事情。然后这个片子，呃，那些遗憾在那一瞬间就就被我们忘掉了。然后就突然就变成了一个特别开心的，特别特别特别舒服的一个状态。有的人甚至责怪我自私嘛，他觉得你要超越超越自己，不要陪把把我们陪葬嘛。其实姜子牙的电影版的首映，其实在之前已经看了N多遍了，第一次看到这个片儿的时候，我的心中的震撼是？嗯，特别特别强烈的，因为我觉得我超越了我自己。我有两两个初心，第一个是我觉得我要对得起那些一四年为我欢呼的人。另外一个就是。当个骗子的。一种气场起来的时候。你是不能停的。就当我心念当中一定要做出这样一步反馈，感恩啊，或者说是提气儿都行。决定做了。我就一定要咬着牙做完，甚至是众叛亲离，他虽然是一个失败的经验，但是他对于我后面的。呃，在做这样的事情，包括再去创作更多的故事的时候，其实有帮助的。我觉得一半一半吧，也有妥协的成分。你。自己确实也需要去思考，你自己在这个项目里边。所存在的问题，你没有办法去预判说。你付出了很多努力，但是你得到的回报就是一定能够。跟你的努力成正比的。并不是每一个人都有这样的机会，能够去参与一部动画电影，所以不管怎么样，一定要把这个项目做下去。而且他确实不至于说能够让你。就是因为这一件事情，就放弃了自己的事业，放弃了自己一直热爱的东西，我觉得这就是他的命吧。对于我来说，呃，可能他最后没有完全能实现我所想，我想要表达的东西，但是观众又接受现在的故事的话，那它也是一件好事。呃，我们的资金也是有限的，就觉得无望，后边肯定完蛋了。这个找我谈啊，孙老师他说要不咱们这个组解散吧，都不知道明天大家是不是都能活着哈，而且现在也没有钱，嗯，就想走。我当时很很矛盾，我就说你们这几个孬种啊，当时给我发的这毒誓怎么一呃这个就没有了呢？我讲了一番这样的话。我说今天我把话放在这儿，今天如果我们放弃，不做了。我，你们都是狗熊。但是大家跟着我一起。我们做。啊，一直坚持做下去啊，我们就是英雄。你们即便是你们不做，我说我一个孙力军也要做下去，做它十年二十年，我说我也能做完，实际上最后做了六年时间啊，也有将近六百人参与了这部电影当中，我印象特别深，就那一年呢，中秋。我说，咱吃月饼吧。然后我们那制片人就拿了一盒月饼，说这一盒就够了。因为咱统共就七个人，这七星伴月正好。这个公司就剩七人人了，当时我们做的这个第三部电影时，就是魁拔第三部电影的时候。也不，谁就是往外漏了一句，说现在啊，这个制作到最后这个收官阶段，呃，人手大量不足。我当天就收到了好几个这个前员工的电话，他们都在各地，人家已经都创业了，就说不行，我马上就带人带人随时赶过去。您只要有一句话，我们就我们就去。所以这些东西我都觉得是我们这个继续把项目做下去啊，继续把项目做得更好的一个这个动力其实我也带了，带了团队，有差不多两百多号人的团队吧。然后在完成完成第一部动画电影的后期的时候，整个的压力是极大的。可能很多人都都其他人只能了解一部分，但我可能了解的是全部，然后很多时刻是必须逼着大家完成任务，逼着大家把该做的事情给做起来，而且也是全团队要一起来拼搏这么一个状态，所以我觉得那个时，那个时刻。没有什么往后面退的选择，因为你还能退到哪里呢？之前已之可能也一辈子也就这一次机会，所以所以不可能放弃，就是我们在做昨日青空的时候。就有个朋友，他生病了，就是得了癌症。他在隔离期间一直不坚持，不放弃，一定要把这个片子做完。才甘心。就他自己的很丧了。就已经在隔离期，一个人在关在一个小屋里，硬是要我们把那个电脑寄过去。写就帮助我们。其实是我们一起做啊，分担一些进度的压力。如果这部作品是我生命中必须要创作出来的话，我会。嗯嗯。把我所能付出的价值全都抛这个抛出去。大理寺刚上的时候，第一集上呃B站的时候不是有弹幕吗？啊，然后看弹幕，我看哭了。对我当时第一集上的时候就是后边片尾满屏都是辛苦了，然后然后就已经有小伙伴绷不住在那呜呜哭了。你知道这个感觉一回头他还在小屋里，在那。我从大学毕业做动画到现在也十多年了。呃，如果说哎呀，做的真好或怎么着的，我说实话，我没有这种感觉。但是辛苦了，这三个字儿就会直中你的要害，多好啊，中国动画，呃，就是我们做的多好，我心里清楚。你说我好，只能说啊，你你希望呃就是我们继续加油，继续努力，继续嗯把片子做好。但是我觉得辛苦了，真的是对动画人的一个最好的鼓励。好在我们坚持到现在了，嗯，好在这口气儿续上了。对，续上了就是没有我。我我觉得至少我们值得庆幸，就是手没生，然后坚持到这个时刻来临，对。藏族的朋友们，还有我们的志愿者们，用那个两根那个松木啊，就是电线杆子拉了一个我们背过去的一个银幕，给贫困地区的一些小孩子们放映动画片。呃，那天突然下起毛毛细雨，我特意站在那块银幕的背面，因为正面已经坐满人了，我在那个同样的角度啊，我就看那个影像，就是我做的片子，那个时候呃，我也是最幸福的，我就说世界，呃，那么多的大师啊，那么那么多的人，各种牛。但是没有我牛，因为我的这个电影在这儿世界海拔最高，然后而我的观众，我希望有可能影响其中的任何一个小孩子，你看我的老师，他在做福娃的时候。就是我感觉。动画人都挺年轻的，可能是因为活在理想国吧，就是一直都在一直都在不停地回找自己的初心，然后在这个过程当中，一直都在螺旋式样的上升和转圈圈。所以我觉得可能东亚人活得也挺幸福的，你在已经。想要做这件事的时候。你就已经决定把所有东西都投进去了，然后这个过程当中痛苦的时候是在于我要抽离出来。只要我沉浸进去，我就真的很享受这个过程。我不想在六十五岁以后让自己变得焦虑，因为人是无法逃逃脱物理规律的，到后来你的观念会固化，就是说现在有时候会看到有些年轻的我曾经带过的学生，就是从专业上想挑战我的时候，会产生一种怨怨怨气。是一种嗔恨。你知道吗？恨自己。是吧，但我带学生带的比较多，我知道他们其实两三年就能超过你。如果你不成长的话，是不是那现在我还能平复，因为我还有能力去跟他去跟他。比较。去跟他就是对抗，甚至用自己的时间，因为我毕竟不年轻了，我可以比他花一倍的时间去。去想办法超过那些年轻的我的学生啊，或者我的同行呃，我觉得其实是公平的吧，就是没有最好的时代，没有最坏的时代，我们都会找到自己的价值，都有自己的生命之歌在倾诉。呃，一代一代都有强烈的生命力在不断的喷涌出来。对吧，我们就是在一个朝阳行业里，他肯定会曲折的往上走，但是一定会是一个好的结果。你看。就是这个东西。这个上面全是观众。这个是走了一个走遍全国的一个书。你还有人做小，做这个小手办这类。把我们这个角色做成这个东西，然后还有还有那个画画那个。画我们影片的截图啊，这个影片他不他们都不是学画画的。就是照着我们那个，照着我们那个电影。这是我们电影那个，这，这是我们片头吗？这是我们片头，这是我画的，这张还就片头那张还是我画的。赵，我的片头都是画人，你还做了这样的比较立体的这种书，就很用心的。你像我们就是像我们这动画人能拿到这样东西，就觉得特别的备受鼓舞，就是更要要更要更用心的做作品，才能对得起这样的观众。因为前段时间我看一个地震的一个视频，然后就想如果深圳发生地震的话，我该我该怎么办？第一时间，我赶快把硬盘拿走。第二是把我把到这个这个东西，就这个观众给我带来这个留言本，一定要带走，其他都无所谓。像第一次第一次去漫展，呃，因为我第一次去嘛，那个时候第一季才刚上线，可能刚播完，我那时候还发了一个微博，就我就故意发的就是因为我就怕没有人来知道吧，就安排了一个主。主主舞台的一个地方，因为很大，我当时就想，如果没有人来的话，就会很尴尬，就没有人排队啊。但但其实那天后来人特别的多，特别的多，就完全超过我的预想。然后，他们主要是有一些粉丝是他是准备了很多的礼物，会专门就是过来，并且就是就是送给我呃，那是我第一次就是收到就是粉丝送的一些礼礼物，就是对我来说，其实是是是是蛮蛮感动的。就是也会觉得，就是尤其你在台上面看到大家的热情时候，会觉得不希望辜负。大家的的喜爱就你回去就会有，更有动力加班。这个动画，我这个这这个动画这个路呢。我是要一直走下去的。其实我早就这个。跟周边的还有我自己内心里面。包括我太太，我也跟她说过，我这动画我是要做到死的。除非我得老年痴呆了，没办法，那你那那那是没有办法，三十年来没接过任何。以赚钱为目的的垃圾片。有难度的事才是我们应该做的。我打算哈，我奋斗到哈，就是我这个劳动能力丧失了。那只要是有人还带着我玩儿，我还会接着往下做，就是喜欢魁拔这些人。我就对他们有很多的亏欠，我一定得一步一步的把这个东西做好了，我觉得才能对得住这些人。我不希望我的作品成为一个文化垃圾，我想我到今天我可以自豪的讲，我的作品始终考虑孩子至上的这样一个目标的，就是美是什么，爱是什么，善是什么。真是什么这种永恒的主题，恰恰是我们动画人始终要挖掘和追求的。动画是一个非齿枯燥的啊，重复的呃，甚至就是无望的啊，有很多就是胎死腹中，投资没了就停下来了。但这一点上，作为主要创作者，首先你要有信心，你前面付出的努力困难赢，面对的这种压力越大，那个幸福的指数才会高啊。目前对于动画圈来说，我依旧是个新人，我我太行了，我比起他们，我的我的经验太不错，我画画也很菜，就是我的一些功底都很差。我觉得还需要更多作品去磨练我自己才才才去，因为我觉得内容这个东西是是不用区分它的形式的，哪怕是定格动画，动画二维三维呃动态，然后电影，然后然后这些这些东西。都是服务于一个本质的内容的，我觉得先把核心的东西练好是比较。比较重要的吧。我们动画人也特别要讲求信念感。啊，直到今天你依然相信啊，你是能出好作品，不要期待于一天之间造造大楼。也不要太过的谋求功利之心。啊，我套用我们其他的导演朋友一句话。动画这个行业，你首先你要爱他，可爱他是要值得你去爱的，你心里面是拥抱的，有趣的。呃，我相信，嗯，一定是很好的一个一个选择。呃，现在导演太多，真正从事在我们这个动画行业当中的，是每个环节的创作人员。太少，静下心来的人太少，就像到我现在，我都在说，我不并不是导演。啊，其实我没做过什么伟大的作品啊，没做导过伟大的作品，但是我参与过很多伟大的作品。我在当中点点滴滴对吧，就是其实没有我们这种人，哪来这些作品，我们呃接下来的所有的动画人其实是要。甘于做螺丝钉。你要成为大师，这个事天说了算。对吧，但是你肯定有最基础的一步的，你要从。从基础开始做，一步一步扎扎实实做啊。我希望在下一个片子里面能够。把那些把自己不足的地方弥补起来是吧，然后呢，嗯呃，肯定是不是为了钱。是吧，然后呢，就说是超越自己，再次超越自己。毕竟我还有二十年，可能还能从事这个行业，就是能做三五部片子，每一部都不一样。啊每一步都呃往一个自己一个另一个极端的方向去做，失败了或者说是平平，那我觉得我问心无愧，电影这个行业，你如果没有这个冒险精神，或者没有一个新东西，你要去试一试的这种胆识。那是出不来好东西的，那会一直是这样的一个一种片子一样的这种风格。这样继续下去，我觉得这对观众也不负责任，当然我就牺牲，肯定是牺牲了我们。那同时也牺牲观众，所以说我我是特别是呼吁我们的制片人真的要专业。要敢于去往前走，敢于做自己没有做过的事情，没有做过的风格，没有做过的故事。这方要敢于去这样尝试，那我们才有机会。现在小孩的动画片。不那么多。呃，都是给成人动画看的，成人动画比较多。我觉得动画片还是要还给孩子，就像我女儿也是她。他现在可以写编剧可以画，那我就说你不急，你自己想，你每天你你把自己的情感赋予一个造型，他什么造型都可以。然后你就从现在开始，你就像记日记一样，你别人是记日记，你可以把你的心情赋予这个造型上。你可以画一套四格漫画，然后慢慢的慢慢的，你这个造型慢慢的通过，等到你二十多岁的时候，你这个造型绝对成熟了。那个时候一旦拿出来，可能就是一个好东西，对吧？要比拿到一个订单，然后马上开始设计，那是要好得多得多得多。但是我我肯定知道，在我们那个动画爱好者的汪洋大海中，肯定有珍珠，有玛瑙的存在，他们有呃，他们自己在那里默默地耕耘，总有一天会出来的。每个作品就像一个盒子摆在这里，浓缩了我整个那个人生阶段的思考，那个人生阶段的创作。观众能看到他之后，我们就产生勾连了。它一旦产生过，连我觉得我的生命价值好像就有了一点点的意义。就小时候我一直觉得无花果没有花。就长大之后才知道，无花果的花是向内生长。然后花托，它那个花托包裹的花，最后形成了果。创作者不就是这样子吗？就是你自把自己的生命融入到创作当中来，所有的观众吃的无花果，你不单吃了他的果，你还吃了他的花。创作者，我觉得就是这样子的。这就是。不是躲在背后，是躲在里面的。之后，我可以后期剪那动画就不一样了嘛，你有毛那个毛起来调子都可以了。这位是煤影厂的老厂长特伟戴铁郎老先生，他是黑猫警长导演，包括黑猫警长的造型都是他设计。我们严定宪先生，他是那个大闹天宫孙悟空的造型的设计师，靖熙是那个阿凡提早期的导演，于泽光。于泽光是中国。最早的折纸动画的导演，聪明的鸭子，那么这里最最厉害的就是我们万来明先生，他们有万氏三兄弟都在这里。最早的铁扇公主大闹天宫都由他们拍摄的。这是我们中国动画之父，可以说。然后段孝暄老师，胡静进，导演张松龄。张同轩、王树成、钱韵达老师、胡兆红导演。吴一红、马克轩、王伯荣、许建芳、颜善春、周克勤、吴应渠、钱嘉俊、唐城导演。梅影当时做的动画片的题材。都非常的经典，他们当时那些动画人都是全力以赴，非常执着，就是说呃他穷尽了我们美术的几乎所有的领域，就是说凡是跟绘画有关的品种，它都可以让它动起来。这个动起来以后，实际上你能够把动画的这种，这个这个这个灵魂把它传递出来的话。那这个动画片就会受欢迎，当时的这种辉煌，作为中国学派，他是当之无愧。我们今天整个动画的这个现状，跟中国学派的，虽然只有一个场所创造的这种这种辉煌，现在我感觉还没法比，但是我们现在还是举全国之力，所以是非常有希望。因为我觉得中国动画其实我一直有个说法，就是中国动画的爷爷和孙子都在，但是爸爸不见了啊，爷爷就是我们煤影厂的老前辈们啊，孙子呢，其实就是我的学生，这一代我觉得是年轻人，包括我，我觉得我自己也半不也算是孙子辈儿了。但是呃，爸爸所谓的爸爸，其实那些嗯，中间的所谓有传承的那那那一代人，其实他们的缺失是因为加工加工片的出现，对吧？他抢走了很多很多的人才。呃，我认为其实真正续接他的就是闪客把香火传下去了，让我们的这个这个命啊，没有真正的丢掉。中国动画未来可能就是说从现。现在开始的话，你如果说二点零的阶段要开始了，中国未来也也一定会一定会走到这一步，并且一定会有这一天，就像我刚刚说的，高光还没有来，高光一定是在未来才会产生，有很多人说。你觉得中国动画属于什么样的一个阶段？然后你觉得现在对他有没有信心啊什么的，我就我就懒得说这件事儿，因为我觉得他很正常，他就在发展，你说他干嘛呢？对我记得特别清楚的一年。那年第一年，电影。呃，就是神秘世界历险记活下来了嘛，每个小伙伴儿比去年年终奖提升了，呃，百分之八十左右吧。然后让大家发完之后呢，大家都虽然觉得不太好，觉得不都大家都觉得怎么就发这么点儿钱。但是还觉得也算不错了，做电影也算有发展了，其实在学校的时候就已经知道了这个行业的呃薪资待遇，就是尤其是那几年啊，就那几年我们刚毕业一二一二一一二一三的时候，那个时候嗯对于。收入少，但是也可以继续制作动画。就是我，我没有在钱上计较过什么，也没有说觉得，呃，他就应该赚钱，甚至甚至我们很早就知道了他。正常就是他不赚钱是正常的，对吧，我觉得是爱好，我觉得就是为了爱好。你要说真是不不喜欢的话，那也就不做了。其实，我们是这一代动画人，一直在填坑的过程。以后，会从事动画行业的这些人，他们踩着你填坑的，踩平的这个地是填平了这片地，然后再去做点什么，嗯。那就是他，那就是他们的事情了。我们中国动画目前的一个问题，其实可能整个世界动画都有都面临的同样的一个问题，就是其实都有退化的一个风险。中国动画面临的危险可能又更多一些，包括我们也面临游戏行业的人才抢夺，这个方面的问题是如果我真的不在公司里面做，退休之后也许我会去搞教育。对，就把也许培养新，培养新一代的孩子们，其实这个我觉得挺好的。这个动画圈里面有很多人也都是那样，就是走了又回来。就是离不开，就是他，他有时候会那样，就是实在干不下去了，先去赚赚赚点钱，跑去赚两年钱，然后又回来继续干这个。因为快快快饿死了，快过不下去了，就跑去赚点赚点外快，然后又又跑回动画行业里面继续干。好多这样的例子，那么其实我觉得这也是一种震荡，什么叫震荡呢？要震荡掉，呃，只看钱的人，那要震荡掉没有热情的人，要震荡掉没有能力的人，那么剩下的都是一些精英，他们能够注入到。咱们的动画行业当中来，我们就可以出很好的片子。呃，在艺术上，中国动画从来没有落后过，曾经还是还是有有有有有在世界上是一个巅峰时时刻的，呃。呃，过往历史，我们如何坚守动画人的，呃呃，对于内容创作本质的一些。呃，自我要求啊啊，怎么服务好市场，怎么好保持住自我。啊，这是一个永远创作者要面临的课题啊，如果今天有一天你的作品啊叫好也要努力叫座啊，我觉得这个事我相信应该是一个。我们所有的，我们创作者应该要努力去追寻的，必须得踏踏实实的，然后进入到这个状态里面。然后你才。呃，可以说你在。做这件事儿，并且是你能把这件事儿做好，然后我们再去想。这个我们能做出一个什么样的一个一个作品，或者说对这个行业能做一些什么改变，大家其实能够意识到动画，动画电影，其实也是能够在这个市场上面有自己的一席之地的，大家不会再去拘泥于说电影，动画片只能给小孩看它更多的。也是能够去打动成年人观众的，所以我相信越来后面越来越多的作品，越来越多的导演、动画人去尝试做动画电影，百花齐放。后面的环境肯定会越来越好。我觉得大家好像好像好像被中国动画这四个字框住了，就认为好像我要做出一些具有中国特色的动画，才叫中国动画。我觉得不是啊，中国人做出来动画就是中国动画。如果有一天中国动画能够在世界上面有一定的地位的，而这个一这而这些地位中间又有我的一角。就是有我的掺和的话，我觉得这是这是我觉得会很骄傲的。我也觉得现在中国动画还比较早期，就我认可那个说法，就现在是星星之火还没有到燎原的的时候，我觉得最好的方式就是不要去标签跟定义说。这哎，你这个太日本了，你这个太美国，你这个是呃反欧洲的什么，我觉得其实大家都是在一个发展的阶段，你你如果觉得这样是好的，你觉得这样好看，你就去去做，你不用啊，不要故意去模仿，也不要去刻意回避。只要你是真诚的创作，你不是在糊弄谁的话，你一定会加入自己的喜好，自己的生活的元素，它慢慢慢慢时间长了，它就会演变成一个中国。的东西就是我们当下生活的东西。中国的观众，动画观众，我觉得是世界上最好的观众，很包容，就是因为他们看过世界上最好的动画。不，不管是三维的是二维的是美国的是日本的，他们还会继续支持国产动画，对继续给你最大的鼓励。没有人在燃烧自己的生命产生垃圾，没有人想呃想做这这种这种事情，都想做好，但是需要一步一步来。但是我能保证给你们看到的就就是你们能感觉到的。我们已经竭尽全力了。动画是什么？动画为了谁？动画想表达什么，我们的。社会责任，我们的审美启蒙啊，我们的优秀传承，文化的传承，这都是我们每一个动画人需要思考和努力的啊，这是。一个必经之路，走自己的路。中国要站在舞台的中央，向世界和世界一起讲好中国故事，讲世界人类共同文明的故事。在这个动画这个市场还不是很成熟的时候，想要去做这件事，去打造这个更好的市场的这一波人，就好像那个闯缸鱼一样，可能你努力过了，你试过了，是不是真的能够。得到成功，每个人都不能打保票，但是这个过程对于这整个环境的变好，它是有意义的。大家可能知道，养鱼的人其实比起养鱼更重要的是养那缸水。环境好了的话，嗯。就是整个养什么都什么都可以，活得很好在里面。往这缸水里面放很贵的那个鱼苗之前，去放一些呃很便宜的啊，死了你也不太心疼的鱼，去来测试这缸水是不是已经养好了。然后这批放下去的鱼就叫做闯缸鱼。并不是我自己选择动画，而是说动画选择了我。动画里面的我才是最真实的。我们的一生是为了创作而存在的，我做动画一定要做到死，我就觉得你你就乐意干这个呀，对吧？你就干就好了。我们不是为了这个钱制作动画，因为我们对它深深的爱好，其他行业的冲击，金钱的诱惑，始终没有把这个行业的人完全的稀释掉。我不后悔我的选择。再来一次，我预我，我觉得我还是会选这条路。动画本身就是热爱。我的付出都是应该的，我觉得就是为自己喜欢的事情付出。动画这个事儿，经历九九八十一难，一定得有勇气和毅力吧。可能会慢一点，可能会晚一点，但是我们一定会做得很好。苦尽就会甘来。做好修炼的修行的准备。In 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